Curse

Phantom Force · May 31, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Well I'm sure many people can attest to having bad experiences due to brain dead henchmen. We all have those kinds of stories, but this one is slightly different. I recently have made a monk (first time ever) and have been tanking Stefen, Orion, and Reyna. Overall since I've gotten to Old Ascalon and I'm just about at LA I, I think my whole party has died um once maybe twice tops when I used NPC's. I find that because Alesia is not the healer and I'm in control that my members are surviving much better even with some of the hardest mobs or a few adds now and again. I'm wondering if anyone else has notice Alesia lack of healing abilitiy. Seems to me there are times when I played warrior our party ate dirt because Alesia was too busy running off to attack/tank, raise a member at a bad time, or just plain ole shoot bolts of something outta her rod. Anyone else see this? Or am I just nuts

Just seems like survivability has increase by like 75% now that I'm doing the healing.

Numa Pompilius · May 31, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

You're not imagining things, I've had plenty of opportunity to lament Alesias "I'm a tank, not a healer!" attitude.

That said, even without her it's going to get mighty tough a bit after LA for you if you only take henches. I wonder if it is at all possible to complete all missions with just henches?

ackir · May 31, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

... duh

Alesia is run by a script. She heals at a certain point and resses when certain conditions are met. You are a player and much more capable of predicting what is going to happen. Alesia is purely reactionary. I wish people would stop blaming the henchmen for their mistakes, scripts have feelings too :P

edit to add:

Quote:

I wonder if it is at all possible to complete all missions with just henches?

I have completed the storyline on two different characters with only henchmen. First with a Mo/Me and then with an E/R.

Digitalblast · May 31, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

One time when i grab her in my group i couldve sworn Alesias said she was only a smitting monk.

Aug · May 31, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

You can complete most of the missions with just Henchmen. Once you get to the Mursaat, however, henchmen really don't cut it. Agony rips apart Henchmen. You need living players with infused armor to go much beyond Ice Mines of Moladune.

And yes, the 'cloth' wearing Henchmen all need a little tutelage in how to run picks. Alesia, Orion, Claude, and Lina are almost always the first to die, because they don't run very often. Alesia is especially bad about trying to tank. I don't think I've ever seen her run away from a mob.

The game is definitely much easier playing as a healer with the other henchmen, than the other way around. I find my Mo/El much easier than my War/El.

I think they need to introduce Lina earlier. Like instead of Dunham. Lina will increase your survivability a lot (in the Shiverpeaks, I often cast nothing more than Aegis, and Lina & Alesia do all the healing... I just direct the attack and cap skills). Unfortunately, you don't get her until after you ascend, which is at least after you've done 50% of the game.

Marus Varrus · May 31, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

All the AI have shortcomings but it is most notable in the monk due to the difficulty the healer is put in to make judgment calls on when best to use their skills.

Oolon · May 31, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

My experience has been different.

I'm a monk and started off with a bunch of healing skills - I thought I would sit back and heal and let the henchmen do the fighting. Seems like my group of henchmen just wasn't making progress through the mobs as quickly as we should. Not enough firepower and we'd end up getting bogged down with long balanced fights early in the game.

So I changed my skills and added a few smiting skills and generally left the healing up to Alesia. It's been working much better. I'm a couple missions past Lion's Gate and have done all of it with henchmen. I find Alesia to be good with keeping everyone healthy (I still use some healing spells now and then) and have had many fights where I didn't have to worry about the healing side of things at all. It hasn't been without some problems - but I'm aware that henchmen aren't perfect like real live players.....

Of course, now that the opponents are getting a bit tougher, I'm finding that I tend to use my healing skills more than I did prior to Lion's Gate. So we'll see if I have to change my tactics in the future. But overall, I'd give Alesia a good recommendation if she wants to include me on her resume...

Rothgar · May 31, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marus Varrus

All the AI have shortcomings but it is most notable in the monk due to the difficulty the healer is put in to make judgment calls on when best to use their skills.

Yes the judgment calls are sort of hard to make, but most of the time using the spells its not the problem. Its she keeps running ahead of the warriors and tries to tank. If she would hang back like the enchanter or the mage, it would all be good. Right now her positioning AI stinks bad.

C2K · May 31, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aug

You can complete most of the missions with just Henchmen. Once you get to the Mursaat, however, henchmen really don't cut it. Agony rips apart Henchmen. You need living players with infused armor to go much beyond Ice Mines of Moladune.

Once you get to perdition Rock, it seems to me all of the Henchmen are infused. The Jade Armors and Mursaat can't seem to agony these henchmen.

con_ritmo · May 31, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

actually, i find the henchmen to heal *extremely* well...much better than many players in fact.

you do have to pick up the slack every once in awhile though, so all it takes is having a mo/x or x/mo in your profession.

once you get lina and alesia, or lina and mhenlo, you'll find that you can just about get by simply casting aegis or guardian. they'll do the rest.

the most important thing with henchmen is that you need to call targets.
do that and most missions are a walk in the park.

i've always read about the healer's poor ai, positioning, etc...and i've NEVER experienced any of that...i think it really comes down to how the player is positioned and which targets the player is calling. also remember that alesia and the other "soft" npc's are targetted first...so it may not be that they're tanking...rather they're getting attacked.

Phantom Force · May 31, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by ackir

... duh

Alesia is run by a script. She heals at a certain point and resses when certain conditions are met. You are a player and much more capable of predicting what is going to happen. Alesia is purely reactionary. I wish people would stop blaming the henchmen for their mistakes, scripts have feelings too :P

First, I know that Alesia isn't a real player. Many times RL players will play much better because they are actually thinking and using strategy unlike the AI players. I am not complaining about henchmen because it's the best idea a game has done. It allows you to not wait for grouping. I have complete the game with henchmen myself and I love using them for quests. I find getting RL people for little side missions tedious. For missions and bigger quests towards 20 then I do RL groups. I was just simply stating what I noticed as a healer, and wondered what people thought or if they've had same thing happen.

Rellok · May 31, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

One thing I have noticed is that Orion, and Stefan will heal themselves fairly regularly. So, if you are a monk, you really can sit back and not do all that much. Obviously the more you heal them, the more they can concentrate on damage. However, when I play as something other than a healer, and I have a dedicated healer in my group, I rely on them to heal me for the most part, and I concentrate on my job. So what I am saying is that there is more required of Alesia in some cases than there is required of a healer pc.

Just what I have noticed so far. I was actually suprised just how often Stefan used Healing Signet. And Orion is always recasting that enchantment that gives him life when he casts fire spells.

Matt

Taphoo · May 31, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

It seems like her script has been tweaked recently. Up until about 3 - 4 days ago, I'd actually prefer to have her as the group's healer (all other players being Carbon based); she was a lot better then 90% of the folks I ran into with "Mo" somewhere in their name.
Now she seems to just want to Tank, whether she is the only Henchie or one of many.

Aetherfukz · May 31, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

I really happen to like (most of) the henchmen, especially for little (or profession-driven) quest where waiting for a party is to tedious. I always take Stefan and Little Thom (although the latter seems to fare much poorer in combat than Stefan, and also likes to get into suicide situations) as they tank good enough. Dunham and Claude are doing there spells and are adept at not getting too much into the fray. Orion on the other hand is always the first to die in my group, he just doesn't no when to run...

And now to the one henchie that defines this topic: Alesia. I think most of the time she does good healing, and even seems to concentrate more on RL players than on the other henchmen it it gets rough. I don't know about Lina or Menhlo (still doing the Ascention missions) but Alesia could get some better healing skills in the later game parts. But the hardest problem about her is that she often likes to get into close combat with a mob, dieing seconds later. She should be the one farest away from combat. Maybe the AI should just not attack at all, and concentrate on the healing.

What I really like about the henchmen is the following: When I am combated by some meelee fighters with my Mage, I just target one of them, and the fighters and others jump on them a second after the call - most real players take some time, will take their own chances into account or just ignore the call.

astzzz · May 31, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Alesia, in my experience, seems to have problems dealing with DoTs when the player's life is fairly low. There are several times where I have died after a mob has been killed, because phantasm/bleeding/poison wore me away, and alesia would stand there and do nothing at all.

Chance Folly · May 31, 2005, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Really? Honestly, my experience with Alesia has been the exact opposite. I've found that if I adjust my playing style, she's extremely useful. I actually perfer her over player healers: no attitude, no failure to ressurect, just healing. I think you all expect too much out of her. She's a script, you must remember; you can't act like you do with a player healer.

Voob · May 31, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I actually haven't had this problem. Occasionally she doesn't send out a heal when she should, but I've never had a problem with her tanking (though she is the first person to be attacked, but this is no fault of her own). In my experience shes always stood behind me, doing her job as good as a script can.

CatLady · May 31, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I've never had many problems w/Alesia (or Orion, or the other ranged) myself - but I also always play ranged characters, thus the fact that she wants to stay within a certain 'radius' of myself usually means that if I run to distance myself from baddies, she follows not long after. I have tons of screenshots where she/Orion are a quarter to half a screen behind me, even, casting spells, while Thorn/Stefan are somewhat in front of me etc. Both Orion and Alesia run to escape monsters quite often, for me - within the limits of that 'radius' issue, anyway.

She does pretty well at healing, for not being human, although yes, of course sometimes her decisions are head-scratchers.

uigrad · May 31, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

I've never had many problems w/Alesia (or Orion, or the other ranged) myself

Well, I've had lots of problems with Claude. Orion and Alesia seem to be a lot better then Claude. I think Claude has a little tank personality ingrained in his circuits.

CatLady, I agree with your statement for the most part. I play a monk, but still take Alesia along a lot of times, since a single healer (even human) is not always enough. Alesia does a pretty good job staying back as far as I do (I'm Mo/R), so she rarely gets in much trouble. My problem is always the fighters. They just won't come no matter how many times I double click on the ground. There's a few spots that I just have had to leave them to die, as I and the rest of the gang run past.

My biggest problem with Alesia is that she will get stuck sometimes. Once, she got stuck on a bridge, because she could see a bird, and wouldn't leave until it was dead. The rest of my party died 1 mile up the road, and she kept firing her smite spells at the bird, instead of coming to rez us. We had to drop party, and join again in town to get out.

Rothgar · May 31, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by con_ritmo

i've always read about the healer's poor ai, positioning, etc...and i've NEVER experienced any of that...i think it really comes down to how the player is positioned and which targets the player is calling. also remember that alesia and the other "soft" npc's are targetted first...so it may not be that they're tanking...rather they're getting attacked.

Try playing as a warrior with an all henchman group on any mission below where you get Lisa. Go attack something. Look next to you. Look at the healer standing next to you. Look at the mage and/or enchanter WAY behind you. Watch healer get targeted as a soft target. Watch healer die.

It gets even worse if you have to turn around because your target bypasses you (the warrior) to go after a soft target. That really screws with the henches positioning.